WVM & Foraging Comment and Chat Section

I figured it would be much easier to comment here on one thread, than try to answer them separately.

So, if I have a lengthy response to someone, I’ll post it here, instead of on the individual thread. It’ll just be easier that way, as the formatting tools on the comment section are just about non-existant, whereas, I can do a much better job of it by just modifying this original post as much as I need to in order to add things to the discussion.

First up is a thought provoking comment by ‘gavinpandion’ that was shared on the WVM & F comment section here: https://wildcookery.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/welfare-and-the-victim-mentality-and-how-it-relates-to-foraging-part-ii/#comments

I can relate to your story, and I agree that many people will pretend to believe that the social safety nets would do an adequate job to meet your needs if you tried to access that kind of help just to blow you off with a lame excuse for why they can’t be bothered to offer you any personal assistance. The reality is that social safety nets are not adequate to meet the needs of the desperate, neither public assistance or charity can keep up with the need for assisted housing for instance to keep people from ending up on the street. So blaming the existence of social safety nets for the cruelty of people who pretend to care about you when you don’t ask them for anything isn’t quite right – but the culture of hypocrisy that we live in does reach all the way into the ranks of the social welfare liberals, and poisons even the staff of public welfare agencies so that social workers themselves engage in subtle victim-blaming behaviors whenever you try to indicate that the help they are offering would not do you any real good. It’s a big problem, but entrenched in our attitudes and behaviors so that we don’t even notice it until we ourselves are the ones in need. I don’t think eliminating social safety nets would do anything to solve it, but the current state of existing social safety nets is an abomination, and so is our society’s attitude toward the needy overall.

Re: Social safety nets are inadequate.

Taxpayer funded .gov Social Safety Nets should not rightly or lawfully exist in the first place. They are an unconstitutional abomination, to put it simply and bluntly. If you want to give to a charity, then that is fine. But forced charity at gunpoint is called highway robbery, not philanthropy.

It does not matter how you justify it. Taking money from one part of the public by force, and giving it to another part of the public, isn’t how a Constitutionally Limited Republic is supposed to operate. It’s theft. It’s Communism. We aren’t a ‘Democracy’, and we sure as heck aren’t (supposed to be) a socialist state. Even if you think it does some good, it still does not make it right.

Re: Blaming the existence of social safety nets

It’s not the existence of these nets that is the problem per-se, but how they were mishandled. There is no way to now ‘fix’ them. And the people on them who have been on them for years and years feel entitled to BE on them. There are families that have been on the dole for GENERATIONS. They literally know nothing else. Is that what this country was founded on? I don’t think so.

Re: Eliminating social safety nets wouldn’t solve the problem…

Well it actually WOULD solve the problem, but not in a way most are willing to accept. The people on it would either sink or swim. Learn or die. Most people don’t like to think that way, but it isn’t the govt’s job to feed people in need. It’s YOUR job. It’s MY job. It’s WE THE PEOPLE’s job.

Especially those who claim to be Christians. How someone can claim to be thus, and yet turn away their neighbor or family in need, is truly beyond me. The story of the ‘good’ Samaritan is one that has always stuck with me. (Luke 10:25-37) Here is a man set upon by thieves and left for dead. All his neighbors pass by him. It was a total stranger, the Samaritan, who bound his wounds, set him upon his own beast, took him to an Inn, and paid for his care. It wasn’t the local government. Remember that.

But regarding safety nets, are you more careful climbing a cliff when you have all kinds of safety harnesses and ropes on, and there is a catch net below you? Or are you more careful when you know that should you slip, it’s a long way down to those jagged rocks below? I used to freehand rock climb in my younger days, so I can tell you what my answer would be. 😉

Now, some don’t have a choice of where they are at based upon being TRULY handicapped, etc. But that’s a tiny fraction of those who DO have a choice, and who DO have the capacity to remove themselves from it. They simply CHOOSE not to, because it’s ‘too easy’ to stay on it, and too much work to do otherwise. Staying on the dole is incentivized, and those who make ‘too much’ money whilst trying to get off it are penalized. Thus ensuring that they don’t make enough to truly get off of it.

And, whether you want to believe it or not, that social safety net will be eliminated whether we want it to be or not. Whether it’s the imminent collapse of the fiat dollar or some political unrest ala Greece, something will cause it to fail. And WHEN, not IF, it does, millions of people are going to be in a very bad spot. Read: dead.

Because they have no idea how even to feed themselves. Isn’t that incredibly sad?

I’m doing this for a reason, and it’s not to piss on the little old grandmother who’s on govt assistance.

I’m an extremely busy fellow. And I don’t waste my time just to see my own words on the screen.

I’m doing it to educate and inform. And if that pisses a few people off, then so be it. They’ll either do something about it and learn something, or, more than likely, they’ll mumble into their beverage of choice what a prick I am, and go back to doing whatever it is they were doing before I dared bring it to their attention that not being able to feed themselves was likely going to get them killed one day.

This country is about to have a schism from hell.

I choose to be on the part of the folks who will come out of it alive, instead of fodder for the feral hordes that will ransack anything within range of one tank of gas because they were too lazy to educate themselves on something so simple as feeding their own family.

Mayhap ye don’t think that’s going to happen, or perhaps that it ‘can’t happen here’. The start of this is going on in Greece right now. Ye know… Greece, the ancient civilization where we get most of our art, sciences, and mathematics from. Yea… that place is reduced to a collapsing financial system that required the rest of the world to bail it out and it’s people, good, intelligent MODERN people, are rioting in the streets. Don’t see much of that on US news though. The nanny state has to shelter us poor children from the rest of the world after all.

Interestingly enough our ancestors didn’t’ have those touted ‘social safety nets’. And surprise, surprise, they survived just fine. After all, if they didn’t we would not even BE here, correct? I like to think my ancestors were fine upstanding people that helped others in need. I’d also like to think that yours were too.

And if we’d all get over ourselves and just help our neighbors when they’re in need, instead of thinking it’s the .govs damn job, they’d do the same for us.

So tell me why we need those social safety nets again? 😉

One last thing. For those who seem to suggest that we some how cannot provide for all those in need, and that we NEED the government to do it for us…

Mickey Mouse

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Categories: Economy, Food Health, Foraging, Preparedness, Religiosity, Survival, Wild | Tags: , , , , , , | 3 Comments

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3 thoughts on “WVM & Foraging Comment and Chat Section

  1. Thank you, I’m on SSD and get no other assistance I am 100% disabled and perhaps I was wrong thinking that SSD was an insurance I paid into for over 20+ years in case I became disabled and I was wrong the believe the PTBs, But here I am paying my bills, not on food stamps or any other assistance and I work hard not to be anymore of a burden than I have to be to people.
    I got a used mini van trading in my PT cruiser (which I loved) so If I need to go into a wheel chair I still can do a little shopping. That came out of my pocket and to save the VA money for a vet that can’t afford to buy a minivan. When I came home and needed to use an electric scooter to shop as I could not drive my car. When I was able to drive I turned the scooter back into the VA and did not get another, nor go to the scooter store and have the Government pay for me to have a scooter. I use an older walker issued by the VA and if I need a new one in a couple of years I’ll buy it.

    I do okay on my VA/SSD disability pay and no other goodies from the Government. I don’t drive a new car, or have $200.00 Nike sneakers or a new I pad, Ipod or smartphone. My Dish subscription for TV is $25.00 a month and I can drop that at anytime as I’m not on a cotract. I’m on my Dad’s Family plan for Verizon mostly because Mom worries and wants me to have a cell phone and I pay him for the extra line and use less than 10 minutes a month of his call plan. Yes, I have worked very hard to learn to make food from scratch and grow a small garden. My food budget is always less than $125.00 per month and I buy tri-tip for what many folks spend on Hamburger. Basic foodstamps is $137.00 per person and goes up rather dramatically if you get about $900-1200.00 per month. For $137. 00 in cash you can get 50 pounds of rice $20.00 for 500 4.oz. servings, . Lets add some beans and go expensive and a mix of red, white and black beans of 10 pounds each for a total of 30 pounds for $35.00 for about 250 4 oz. servings. Add in some flour for bread,1 loaf per pound and 50 pounds for about $15.00, add a few spices and salt $5.00, 10 pounds of sugar for $7.50 and 8 pounds/gallon of oil, $15.00 is olive oil, that should give you options for all types oil. Add a little yeast, baking powder for $5.00 and you still have over $20.00 to spend on meat, milk, eggs or cheese and this is a shopping list that would feed a family of four over 6- 8 weeks on $137.00 for a single person’s allotment of of food stamps.

    Gavin what do you mean the safety net is incapable of supporting people? How much government payments is fair for a poor person to live on or a family of four? At Min. wage 2 people working a 40 hour week are bringing home about $1100.00 each or about $2,000.00 per month counting payroll taxes. Is $2,000 a month good to live on without government help? Still below poverty level but doable, my house payment is below the 1/3 factor and in the west other than the Coast a $600.00 rental payment is doable. I know they will qualify for food stamps on 2 people earning about $2,000.00 per month they will get about $200-250.00 plugged into EBT card. Now in some states to qualify SSD or EBT qualifies for subsidized housing, an extra payment for paying utilities. Now they are not earning big money and total comps is about equal to about $30,000-$36,000 a year and no taxes. How much do you give to charity? how much extra do you pay in taxes above what you owe?

    What’s fair amount of money to pay people that are used to generational welfare, and will get them off welfare and working? I mean why should they change? Getting about $30 grand of value and you don’t even have to flip burgers is a good deal.They are warm, got food in the belly, got new kicks clothes and cars don’t count in value so get that Escalade and look like billy badass. It might keep others from killing you and at least it has some metal in it and a descent engine to let you run away.

    • Jamie,

      Well met!

      Thanks for the very informative post! 🙂

      You would be one of the exceptions to the rule in regards to what things such as foodstamps and the like SHOULD be used for, and yet there you are doing things by your own steam as much as possible.

      I highly, highly, respect that!

      You are also spot on in regards to the food. Most people can’t cook. I cook 3x per day, and I buy in bulk, as you said. 20 pounds of rice here, 20 pounds of beans there, etc. This is how I get the ‘cost per serving’ down so low for my family, and feed us on only a $40 a month food budget. Of course, I also forage like a madman. 😉 It helps when you know most of the edible stuff between here and the Rockies. 🙂 (And when most people are more than happy to have you take that load of apples, walnuts, or whatever off their hands because all they see it as, is messing up their pretty yards.)

      Also, as a Vet, the .gov, and by extension that means We the People, have 100% responsibility to make sure your needs are taken care of. There are literally Trillions of dollars in CAFR accounts that could cover all of our veterans medical and physical needs with honor.

      And even if there wasn’t, we as a People should step forward and take care of it.

      It is said you can tell a lot about a society by how they treat their veterans.

      A veteran is someone who has served their country, and in some cases, paid a high price in doing so. They entered into this service willingly. It is our DUTY to take care of them. And how we treat our honored veterans is abominable.

      I added your blog to my ‘blogger’ blogroll at my Wild Liberty! III blog as well, here:

      http://wildlibertyiii.blogspot.com/

      III to III, brother! 🙂

  2. I’m not all that special though I really hate being on the dole I try to minimize it. As well as maximise my to storage and preps. Yes I have all the basics to save my idiot family members at leat for a month. Extra food, water, Bathroom items, clothing, heaters and stuff. Do I have to do it? NO! Is the right thing for me to do? Yeah I thinks so for me. I can give them options if they want to play victim that’s on them!
    I am not a victim! A bit of bad luck and I’m disabled You can piss and moan why me? Or ask why not you? Get off your ass and move forward. What are you waiting for a cookie, a gold star? This ain’t first grade anymore it’s life and if you think it’s sucks now wait till it gets midevel.
    I’m good I can add value and brew beer, bake bread, grow a garden have solar panels, fuel and I’m well armed. I ain’t waiting for permission to survive from the PTBs I’m working and learning new old stuff my self. If you can stop worring about having the latest car gadget or other BS it’s a lot of fun making beer. I’m starting a mead now, spinning wool, knitting and few other projects. It’s truly amazing if you let go of the concept of I can’t and embrace I can! You might learn you can’t do some stuff as you have no talent or skill. I can’t slam dunk a basketball, I’m a short, white chick with the leaping ability of a safe and so what?

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